Police union votes to keep take-home car concession

By P.J. LASSEK and NICOLE MARSHALL World Staff Writers - 11/6/2009


The Tulsa police union announced Thursday that it will make no further concessions, including giving up officers' right to take police vehicles to their homes outside the city, as a means of cutting the Police Department's budget.

Members of Fraternal Order of Police Lodge 93 had voted in July to take eight furlough days along with the rest of the city's work force rather than see 48 officers laid off.

However, when further budget cuts were required, the city laid off 21 officers last week. Eighteen have been rehired using federal stimulus grant funds.

Sixteen employees in other city departments also were laid off.

To prevent deep cuts in the Tulsa Police Department, two city councilors have called for ending the policy of allowing police officers who live outside the city limits to take vehicles home.

The city administration has said $1.1 million could be saved by keeping the cars in the city.

Fraternal Order of Police President Phil Evans, however, has said that number is inflated.

Evans said that more than 25 percent of the union members met Wednesday night, and the overwhelming consensus was that "there will be no further concessions from us."

He said the union was trying to find a way to bring back the three officers who were not rehired and that he hopes to announce a solution Friday or early next week.

"The administration does not like any of our ideas. We are trying to figure out a way to do it on our own," Evans said.

"All the city wants is concessions. They are not interested in good ideas or other methods of getting stuff done."

Police Chief Ron Palmer said he was not surprised with the union's decision.

"They either don't understand the severity of the situation we're in or they're misinformed about the severity of the situation we're in," he said of the union's members.

If the FOP is done making concessions, he said, "then so be it."

"But we'll continue to look inside to see if there is anything else we can cut that we've overlooked, but we don't believe there is," Palmer said.

If the economy continues to harm the city's finances and the FOP isn't willing to give up some benefits, more layoffs are "not out of the realm of possibility," he said, adding that "we've seen it in other cities."

Palmer said the take-home vehicle issue has been very contentious.

He said that he sees "no public benefit to Tulsa citizens who pay taxes for public safety, and a police car is in Catoosa or near Bartlesville."

City Councilor Rick Westcott said Thursday that the union's unwillingness to budge was disappointing.

"I always believed that the rank-and-file police officers have the best interest of the citizens at heart," he said.

Westcott pointed out that public-safety personnel costs are more than all the revenues produced by the 2-cent sales tax that goes to the city's general fund.

"We have to find a way to trim those costs without compromising or reducing our manpower. It's very disappointing that the FOP does not share the same goal," he said.

"By using the federal grant money to hire back officers we laid off, we've preserved 18 jobs. We still have three laid off and also lost the 18 additional officers that would have been paid through the federal grant," he continued.

"My proposal would have saved all 39 jobs, put helicopters in the air and saved the mounted patrol."

Councilor Bill Christiansen said he was "extremely frustrated with the FOP," especially about the take-home vehicles.

Christiansen has pushed for years to eliminate the take-home vehicle policy for officers who live outside the city limits in an effort to free funds to hire more officers.

The right to take home vehicles is part of the FOP's contract and would have to be given up through negotiations.

Christiansen said that, in view of the sacrifices being made by all city employees, he had thought the police officers would also consider compromises to help the city.

"I have been a strong supporter of the FOP with salary increases and not taking money away from police and fire," he said.

"But a take-home vehicle sitting in the driveway in Owasso, Okla., does the citizens of Tulsa absolutely no good other than spending their hard-earned money. That money ought to be used to rehire those three police officers," Christiansen said.

"At the end of the day, the citizens of Tulsa should be outraged," he said.



P.J. Lassek 581-8382, Nicole Marshall 581-8459
pj.lassek@tulsaworld.com, nicole.marshall@tulsaworld.com


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Tulsa World Reader Comments
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livinintheburbs, (11/5/2009 7:47:12 PM)
So police only answer calls if they have a police cars...how convenient..Retire all ther top brass Police and hire back 2...The chief and the assistant chief. Everyone else with a badge and a gun gets back on the street..Don't like it quit. If you are indicted..and found guilty in a SPEEDY trial..you get fired...no PAID leave...fired.If there is a shooting in Tulsa and its gang related (both parties) and no one speaks up..Divine intervention..next..CrimeStoppers solves as many crimes as the police do and it's cheaper.I respect what they do and aprreciate them but it's time to buck up.

wmenorr67, Tulsa (11/5/2009 2:52:42 PM)
But the FOP did offer to save the city money by having TPD officers take comp time instead of overtime. That would have saved a bunch of money. But the city declined that offer.

Mar, Tulsa (11/5/2009 11:05:17 PM)
Well, when the police contract is up for renewal (I think sometime next year), I don't think the city council or incoming mayor will be too willing to work with the FOP/TPD. The city of Tulsa should be ready to come to the table and state no police or city vehicles be allowed to be taken to city employee's homes out of the Tulsa city limits.

Mar, Tulsa (11/6/2009 12:17:23 PM)
"Police union votes to keep take-home car concession" Gee, imagine that.

Mar, Tulsa (11/6/2009 12:19:15 PM)
I agree with you WeThePeople. The town I grew up in Kansas had that requirement. I assumed that was the same in Tulsa.

scouter, Tulsa (11/6/2009 10:06:31 AM)
The police got the take home car deal in leau of raises one year. The deal does require the the officers not take the cars further than 25 miles from 41st and Yale. City leaders - audit and enforce the 25 mile contractual rule.

scouter, Tulsa (11/6/2009 12:14:11 PM)
That's the problem HAHAHAHA, There are officers who take their vehicles home - beyond the 25 mile radius of 41st & Yale. There appears to be no auditing of or enforcement to make sure car usage is not extended beyond what their contract states. We are paying additional gas & maintenance for some to whom the rule don't apply

Few Clothes, America (11/6/2009 4:42:07 PM)
OK, now you should demand the return of the horse patrols and helicopters. Since the city is going to continue to spend like drunken sailors, bring back these two assets to the TPD.

FUTURE WORLD, Tulsa (11/5/2009 6:01:03 PM)
Soon, one day the contract is going to come up for renewal. At that time I hope the new mayor will rewrite the rules. It's time for hardball with this organization, which incidently is filled to the brim with hardnosed officers.

FUTURE WORLD, Tulsa (11/7/2009 12:42:25 AM)
Corvetteguy blindly stands with the the police I suppose on principle. But certainly the officers are telling the citizens of Tulsa, they don't care. Well lets move forward. Someday that contract will end. And the economy will improve. The city needs to start thinking now about upgrading police station parking lots. We're gonna need the extra spaces.

FUTURE WORLD, Tulsa (11/7/2009 12:46:51 AM)
Maybe the cars are part of the pay compensation. But what will they have? Cars to take home or more officers laid off? Wait untilthe next sales tax disbursement from the OTC. If it's a couple million short, where does the city begin?

FUTURE WORLD, Tulsa (11/8/2009 11:39:53 PM)
I too would like to see a list by department on city lay offs.

FUTURE WORLD, Tulsa (11/9/2009 12:50:44 AM)
Sounds more like a big old feel good and pat everyone on the back lodge party to me.

jsludge, tulsa (11/6/2009 6:45:02 AM)
of course they won't give up their cars. it's not a matter of having a place to do paperwork or being able to respond quicker when called in from home. those are just weak excuses and I'm not buying them. it comes down to them wanting to keep their extra vehicle for personal use that are fueled and maintained at someone else's expense. just an extra helping of gravy.

Justun, tulsa (11/5/2009 3:00:40 PM)
Take the pay from the mayor's advisor...let some of them go...Hire all the needed Police back. Crazy! Too many chiefs and not enough indians as the old saying goes.

Justun, tulsa (11/5/2009 3:20:19 PM)
The cars were compensation because they didn't have the cash or willingness to give the guys raises. It's in their contract. Do you suggest a breach to get the cars back? Boy! that would really land the city in hot water. No money and lawsuits galore.

Justun, tulsa (11/5/2009 4:40:26 PM)
cherylann, Tulsa (11/5/2009 3:41:14 PM) I just don't see how taking the cars home can be costing the city that much money. Tulsa is a small city - how much gas can it take to go from police headquarters to a police officers home? Even if you consider the suburbs, it can't be that much. It's not like they are using the cars for personal business like going to WalMart or the casinos or anything. They are driving them home - the cars are sitting in their driveways overnight (which surely is a deterrent to criminals) and then they are driving them back to work. I see it as a win-win situation for the city and the officers. very good point Ms. Cheryl

Justun, tulsa (11/5/2009 5:06:57 PM)
Issues of Fact, (11/5/2009 4:41:46 PM) The problem is that..the cars are part of their contracts. Union contracts. If Tulsa tries to take them away...it's call breach of contract. A sueable offense. Yeah maybe the police should give them up to keep their brother police officers from being laid off...I sure would. But it is no guarantee that the city would rehire them anyway, at least at this point.

Justun, tulsa (11/5/2009 7:31:42 PM)
aint missbehavin, .. (11/5/2009 7:02:52 PM) ,they aint alot of crime in the air except for on here Okay that was really funny!

Justun, tulsa (11/5/2009 8:40:24 PM)
Exchanging views, Tulsa (11/5/2009 8:17:10 PM) How many of the Mayor's aids have been laid off? That's what I wondered too. Good point!

Justun, tulsa (11/6/2009 6:37:54 AM)
sgtrockb, tulsa (11/5/2009 10:29:49 PM) Just to clear up a few things: 1. Sharing cars is not productive. I did it. The cars only last about 2 years before they have to be replaced. Nobody has ownership, so nobody truly takes care of them, and you spend 30 minutes of each shift just moving your equipment in and out of them. That's 30 minutes that could be better spent taking calls. 2. The take-home cars were a negotiated item. Like it or not, the city gave this benefit INSTEAD of money one year. If you believe its worth $1million a year and you want to take it away, then consider it a million dollar pay cut that only the police would have to take. 3. It is a slight benefit to the city of tulsa. Because of officer shortages, many officers are called in to work different parts of town. It is much easier to get to another station if you already have your car. And while you're driving to that location, you're listening/watching for calls. The same thing when you're on your way to work. On another note, nobody seems to be paying attention to the man behind the curtain. The 21 officers were laid off a week before the city obtained the grant money and 18 were brought back. 1. Was the city in so much fiscal trouble that they couldn't afford those officers for a week? They paid the officers for that week they were off and had to pay time and a half for officers to fill their shifts. 2. If the city had the money to not only pay them but pay their replacements overtime, why couldn't they retain them until they found out the results of the grant? Thank you sir for your service and your comments. What would we do without people to protect and to serve us? Please look the other way when I come through on my busa at 167...if you don't mind?!?

Slatz, Tulsa (11/6/2009 8:34:42 AM)
It's all about $. The city wants to take the cars away to save it. The cops want to keep them so they don't have to spend it to buy gas, oil, etc. for their personal autos. But if the city has the power to lay off cops, then an after hours free city auto is a moot point. If I had to choose between my job and a free car to drive home, I would be choosing my job.

50,000 ft, (11/6/2009 8:30:53 AM)
Yes, and everyone in the Army gets to drive a jeep home at night - just in case the "Russians" invade at 2AM. They can park them at a precinct or fire station nearest their home. Surely, none of Tulsa's finest live more than 10 miles outside the city limit. He He

JCash, Tulsa (11/5/2009 2:49:48 PM)
The FOP does not barter with the city council. End of Story.

JCash, Tulsa (11/5/2009 5:23:07 PM)
Kilgore, Trout: We would love to have OKC's contract. Little Rock's....not so good. Issues of Fact: I know your car position; it's clear. But know this....there is NO WAY that the outside-the-city car useage equals $1.1 million. NO WAY!!! Further, there is no way to know that the city would have hired ANY additional personnel. It's a crock for you to post that BS. To equate the out-of-city car useage against the hiring of an additional 19 officers is insane. You're better than that. Fruits&Nuts: I think your name says it all. Kuntry Kuzzin: We have a $$$ model that differs from yours. But using your numbers of $200K for instance....it represents about 0.5% to 0.6% of 1% raise to our salary. That's why the city offered it and we accepted. I can't stop you from not liking it (I get that) but its cost to the city was not an issue to them. They offered it to us! In fact, it saves them money because there are no other costs associated with the program (commonly called "roll-up costs). I don't expect you to know that but now that I have educated you, well....


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